and whoever thought there would be a republican caucus to get john kerry -- gwen: well, if you're a member of the senate you're part of the club and that's probably what's going on. but i'm curious about the folks at the white house, mike, it seems to me the people at the white house are trying to decide if it's worth it. >> i don't often say this, because every time i think it i end up being wrong. but i think there's a visceral aspect of this. i think the president, when this came up in his first post-election press conference was genuinely upset. come after me, come after me, almost like a joe pesci moment there. gwen: right, right. and if it would have been anybody other than john mccain it wouldn't have been quite the same. >> which also may have pushed the presidential buttons as well. i think that there is a strong contingent among the upper echelon at the state department and at the white house that think that president should go forward with that nomination. gwen: should? >> should. i think there are others who say let's not pick this fight now. we have plenty to work on you the u